Plus pretty much any greeting directed at women corresponds to age in some way (Miss sounds young, Maam sounds old). This young investigator successfully earned her first R-01 grant is here to tell you about her research. or This young journalist has had 6 long-form articles published in the New Yorker is here to tell you about her experiences. are great introductions. A couple of years ago I asked her at what age do social graces no longer apply? She looked at me long and hard, and said You are not old enough, young lady And one of those ways is responding immediately to texts, DMs and calls. Ive been called dear and honey in ways that were nice, complimentary, endearing. In our reviews, Hack Spirit highlights products and services that you might find interesting. You honestly think people are mistaking you for under 30?????? It could go this way: If you think your crush is being flirty by calling you boo, you can play the same card on them also. I mean, there you are, YOU, out on the floor, doing deadlifts, squats, the whole thing, and its so inspiring. Which of course, means AT YOUR AGE, its SO AMAZING, I mean if YOU, this feeble, antidiluvian, wheezing crone, can hobble out on the floor, ANYONE could do it!! Instead of just saying Ive lived in places. Im confused. It makes you look not like an adult professional, but a high school intern. Im pretty sure my mom only called me young lady when I was in trouble. Great point here and I think the best from this whole forum (can you tell I worked in retail?). Dont always assume though. Id only fall for it if I were delusional. If youre not sure whether someone likes you or not, dont focus so much on what theyre saying. Getting carded when purchasing alcohol is a bad example and not analogous to the type of scenario described by OP. And hes dead., Im 66. She could have well as said, What ageist malarky! Its certainly not a compliment. I put the bare minimum of cash on the table to cover what *I thought* was the price of the food. My immediate and visceral reaction to milady is NOPE and also r/justneckbeardthings. staff in my office are especially condescending to a couple of the older men who are a bit, um, shall we say technologically challenged, and Ive heard these men being addressed as, Young man. I think it is very ageist, and sexist, not so much. I feel like you can tell who has or hasnt ever held a service job by the responses to this letter. Retail salespeople are not using these terms to put people in their place. How long do you think Ill live? The fact that people may get upset when they misunderstand a situation doesnt mean that there are some basic considerations that customer service people would do well to consider. as well as other partner offers and accept our, and completely, ridiculously nerve-wracking. I was like I was referring to your shirt. Those of us in heavy customer service roles can never be perfect, can we? And theres something almost mildly flirtatious about it? When I managed retail I referred to a group of my staff as dogglers. It was oddly personable, and yet confusing enough that nobody bothered locating any offense. Around the time I started hearing this, I got the impression it was because some 80-somethings objected to being called old, I just dont see any reason for adding old or young in that situation. She is tiny (47) which makes people want to treat her like a doll. My mom would do this, because she didnt change her last name, so there was indeed no such person as Mrs. Momname DadLastName. Same across the border in North Carolina, though Im only 25 and not far removed from it actually being accurate. I think thats how you get the message across in a nonthreatening way without taking up too much time, and you even get to throw a totally-not-infantilizing term back at them. Just take your change and move along, then complain about them on social media or to your friends. If you ever ask them to hang out with you even if its casual like grabbing lunch or ice cream they always have an excuse. I cringe to hear thats how I was raised tossed around. OP, I can see how your comment can come across as jarring, and possibly not achieving the intended outcome. To see my latest work, follow me on Facebook. My grocery cashier is a lady older than me and she calls me young lady, so its like a joke. Im 63. I got really mad at work when one of the college kids used to list peoples birthdays as a mathematical expression of 21, like 21+6.. When someone my age or older uses terms like young lady or girls I internally roll my eyes but its not offensive. And whether or not anyone or everyone likes it isnt relevant to the question of whether or not such a place exists. This is perfect!!! Especially, if all these signs match as well. And yet youre doing the same thinginstead of moving on with your life, youre commenting on a work column to reinforce your ire. you dropped your wallet! Ugh. Milady sounds so Fedora Shrek though. On one hand, yeah I think young lady is really patronizing. Part of the reason I started talking about this to customer service workers when there was time is because a salesman at the office I partially supervised was upset when a businesswoman snapped at him after hed called her young lady.. Ever. *I* wish the people at the place I take my car would stop calling me a guest. Being a loyal customer or client would suit me fine, but if Im a guest why did you just charge me $800 to sit in your lobby for 5 hours? I would be at the point where I cant even pretend its clever or original. Its also only a term Ive ever heard men use, at least socially. Yes, it feels very condescending which bothers me (personally) far more than it being a backhanded way of calling someone old. The appropriate response to someone calling you girls isto ask him not to call you girls (which, among other things, gives him a chance to apologize.). I suspect they role modeled it rather than giving verbal instructions. See my second comment above. I mean, sometimes it is, but not all the time. Because many people find that offenseand it doesnt stop many comments on here that the first thing they noticed was your gender. I kind of went, Young? Sheesh. It may happen at a party. You dont write a work advice columnist to reinforce your ire. Liked what you just read? I find infinitely more likely to be addressed, by people of any age or gender, as Miss Ciela, rather than just Ciela. This reply is inflammatory and nonsensical. If you want your crush to like you, then you need to grab his attention like a Hollywood screenwriter would. Not trying to be rude at all with this question: This letter brought up an interesting issue and the advice in the response was excellent. If your crush touches you frequently and shows open body language, they might be trying to give you subtle hints. So when someone is just trying to be nice and compliments me on how well I speak English, because they assume Im a foreigner based on my skin color, I should avoid correcting them. A lot of things are common and participated in by the people involved, and still problematic. I do not jowever ask other similarly aged (or older) propke if they are turning 39 again hur hur hur because, its ridiculous. Ha, I always ask for the senior discount. Immediately responding to a message is a hint that someone doesnt take your attention for granted. I was a married woman with my own last name long before it was common and so got a front row seat on womans place.. It might. Yeah, young lady is NOT and will never be the *antidote* to Maam. My Boyfriend Didnt Get Me Anything for Christmas! You can tell when someone likes you because they treat you differently from other people. But if its such that they use the term alone with you or their body language is suggesting that they find you attractive, then by all means fan the flame. Its glorious. ^^^Exactly what I was thinking, Dragoning. There could be any reason. If your crush senses that you like them, then they dont want to give you the wrong impression that they like you back. Uh, ok. Time for my old story about the airplane trip where I was on my way to a conference at age 25 or so (so 50 years ago). It has indeed always been from a man considerably younger than himself. It doesnt actually come across as a compliment.. young fellow. I dont ever complain out loud but I do hate being called maam because it makes me feel old. If I were a customer in my 60s and someone in his 30s or younger said this to me, I would absolutely put him in his place. Thank you, Roscoe! When we got in the car , I mentioned it and my husband said Oh yea, you teacher voiced him. Because subconsciously they want to impress you and that means that their body will react accordingly. I like to think Im finally closing the gap between the age I look (40ish?) Do you know the most sinking feeling you can have? You might notice that they shift locations to be closer to you. I hate hate hate hate HATE when people pretend they think Im younger than I am. OP, you are my kinda hero! Do you mind telling me why you called me that? 18 signs he knows you have a crush on him], Honestly, you really have no choice but to accept it and move on with your life. My mom started getting elderspeak from her colleagues, so she dyed her gray hair auburn, and it stopped. And they run the risk of offending someone else by not doing the thing that bothers you. I grew up in rural Canada surrounded by blue collar people and calling people older than you young man/lady is really common. You can call me Black or Dr. Cat, but not Mrs. Cat. A young woman actually looked at me quizzically and asked But isnt it more important that you are married? and seemed downright offended at my No, not when I am working.. Not when said person is a grown ass adult. Wow, that is just rude. Since this is all happening over the phone, I know that they cant be making these comments based on my appearance, but rather the way my voice sounds. A few months ago, I reached out to Relationship Hero when I was going through a tough patch in my relationship. I suspect, however, that if we looked, we could find the other side of the story somewhere on Reddit, like Tales from Retail. Thats not an ethical response to gendered language. Well, take a deep sigh of relief. Sounds like OP is looking for a reason to be offended or just likes to debate semantics. I know, young lady, is not the same as, maam. My point is that customer service personnel have to deal with the reality you describeno matter what they do, someone is going to find fault with it. I like Alisons wording! You can be respectful and politic without referring to age or gender. I think knowing the crappiness of a customer service job behooves customers to be polite, friendly, and businesslike. Most certainly, if I had know that would offend you, I would not have said that., The stop talking. Yeah, my primary association with young lady as a vocative is an authoritarian dad admonishing his teenage daughter to be back by curfew, or the like. The most common reason a guy's good friends poke fun at each other is because of a crush. Your maam example falls into that category. Instead, theyre struggling when it comes to focusing on you. If it suddenly feels like youre looking in a mirror when you are talking to them, theres a good chance that they like you. It could mean talking at the same speed. When has anyone ever complained, That person refused to call me young when serving me? Heck, I even remember when I was working as a cashier, when a group of women in their 60s (at least) were buying alcohol, and I obviously joked (big smile on my face), Do one of you have an ID? They joked about not being able to find their IDs! Hed apologize every time I corrected him but then do it again a few minutes later. > Referring to someone as a young lady feels respectful, actually. You are a shopkeeper in 1890, and shes a girl who hasnt graduated to long skirts yet and has come in to spend her pocket money on licorice whips and horehound candy. Young lady isnt so bad, imo. It was -so-weird- because I figured people use the term young lady when theres a large age discrepancy and it was so clearly not? The best thing you can do is connect with your eyes two, three, four times. [Read: Why wont he ask me out? Our subconscious creates a situation where they will start to mirror your actions, body language, behavior, and position. I had a temporary manager who called me young lady and it was so disrespectful. So lets cut them some slack. And its never well, she is right and maybe it would be in your benefit to reflect on your language and your internal biases, its Im glad you maintained your cool in dealing with someone so difficult next time they treat you like that, remember you can walk away.. I mean, I think sometimes this is just a stupid joke and not sexist, such as when a great-grandparent is blowing out candles on the cake and they make a joke about them turning 18 or whatever. You said there are parts of the US where people talk like this. Maybe you are a fish swimming in the water not able to see it. So why do we get ignored and patronized all.the.time. Just as every cohort of peoplewhether you divide them by age, race, gender, or any other groupinghave words/phrases that arent offensive when someone within that group uses them, its applicable here. Please assume the best intentions in service staff is better wording. From simple gestures such as touching your arms, your shoulders, or holding eye contact with you, you can tell if someone is into you. Her site, she can do what she wants. IMO there are way more things to get angry about (like when my ex, who is younger than me, calls me kid.. pfft). We were good enough coworkers that I was able to laugh and raise my fist and yell I am a grown-a$$ woman!. Still super icky to be called it as an adult. Youre not going to change the world with one comment to one person, but as Alison says, you might make them think on it. Reproduction without explicit permission is prohibited. To be honest, as a former retail employee, I would smile and nod through all of this and wonder why are you making that my problem? and not change a single thing. Your crush may have asked a friend of yours, stalked your social media accounts, or they've been crushing on you long before you even realized that you're crushing on them. are saying Ms.. Same with my first language. Ive worked with the elderly in the hospital and care homes, and the women loved being call young lady or lass (and likewise, the men were called young man or lads). I sure hope not. Please dont assume that you speak for me. By which time it will hopefully have been phased out of existence. Sometimes I ignore it. I prefer to avoid being the sort of customer that the cashier tells stories about in the lunchroom. In the past he once replied to me almost 2 days later. Its definitely sexist. No, a customer should not get snippy, but a server should not be saying it. So many of these complaints (I hate Maam, I hate Miss, I think the cashier is just carding me as a sly joke) are super common, but if you start going off on the cashiers and waitstaff, its going to look like youre punching down. If I felt the need to educate someone about how they said something when they are saying it in what I presume to be a good-natured way, with no ill-will Id try to find a gentler way of doing it (especially when it comes to talking to people who already have to put up with a lot of grief from people). I am curious what the commentariat would think about one of my prior employees. Defending the indefensible? I dont think we will ever agree on a term that will be unoffensive to everyone. Not to say your way was confusing, or that customer service workers wouldnt understand it- I just think the suggested way is much more to the point and doesnt put you as much in a position for them to argue back? But young lady is in a class of offense all by itself. Intent is not magic! I dont mean to be offensive with it, but its a hard habit to break! Its not really a damned if you do, damned if you dont situation. In a joking tone I told him I wasnt young or a lady, laughed and walked away. I said that she must have moved here when she was 10 (she was in her 20s I think). If youre hanging out with someone else and your crush starts acting strange, it might be because they are jealous. Why have I published questions about vampires or letters that are more about relationship problems than work? Right youre 28. Sometimes, we dont even know these people like each other but we intuitively pick up on the sexual tension. One time I was shopping with my teenage son for a new phone to upgrade the one he had. (Hopefully what I do say will warm him up to it by someone else, which I think is often the goal of things like this. These retail workers have probably gotten yelled at for calling people maam. Maybe the kid heard his old manager use it with an old classmate, and copied inappropriately. If the customer service person (or whoever) experiences discomfort when you have calmly explained it to them, that is on THEM. And most of them, if treated poorly because they were women, would have been more inclined to rip the guys nuts off and feed them to him than merely complain. So, if they don't care about communicating with you, then they don't like you that much. You dont get the luxury of walking away, because they can easily complain and get you in serious trouble. Young lady was clearly not meant to harm or offend OP, even if she takes it the wrong way. Though honestly, I think its less being taken for younger than being taken for always junior because Im female. My particular button (note that Im 66) is when people say, Oh So Very is 66 years young! Even when its said about someone else, it just makes me cringe. wait you felt insulted, THEN ordered, and THEN didnt leave a tip? Its very, very different for someone over the age of 90 to call anyone younger young than for someone younger than their conversation partner to use that term. care. Considering most of the elderly men I know, I couldnt see calling them young man to their face either. Why is Im going to pretend you look younger than you actually do funny, though? He finally got the hint although I think someone had to explain it him. I feel like maam is far more polite than something patronizing like young lady. For me, when in doubt, stick to honorifics. No. AAAAHHHH!!!!!! It would be patronizing and obnoxious from anyone less than 90. Where I live, cashiers are required to card regardless if the person looks 19 or 91. +1 y. I wouldn't say your friend zoned just cause he called you man. Thats your prerogative. It makes me cringe when people use it to refer to actual children (just a pet peeve like hating moist, I realize its my issue!) Even I have to agree with you on this one! It was always used to punish me what do you think youre doing, young lady? or listen, young lady, dont you know better than that?, etc. Its better to know now than later. You look about 12 to me.. I am nearing 60 and I would not be bothered by Miss or Maam. I remember when I was in my early 20s and would feel slightly shocked to be called Maam but would n0t be upset or outraged by it. Why did you publish this? I guess we could go for universal and neutral: Comrade. Tremendous. OK, lets say that I *do* want to be assumed to be younger than I am. I mean, Im not actually SAYING this to them, Im making the point on this here website that this joke works differently for women than it does for men. The comments toward people who dont find young lady offensive, sexist, or demeaning have, for the most part, been rather vitriolic. The teenaged son of the guy who owns my neighbourhood corner store calls me auntie because thats how he was raised to address older women. Excuse me, you left your bag! When you talk about the things you look for in a man, he tries to fit into that category Copyright 2007 - 2022 Ask A Manager. Theres no wrong way to take something. People where I live are constantly calling each other honey and sweetie all the time, no matter the age, the gender or how well they seem to know each other. And if they dont feel the same way, then they will purposefully send short texts even if you send long ones. Like does the wife lose her first name when she gets married? While I would never use young lady or young man to refer to someone, and I agree with the OPs sentiments, I also agree with Roscoe in that retail and food service workers do have to deal with So. If they are standing right there with you, you OPEN YOUR MOUTH AND ASK. Ive been far more upset by someone sarcastically calling me counselor while rolling their eyes and then staring at my (insert body part here). when a terminix tech came lout to do an inspection Oooo, is this a great typo? Im in my 50s, and am mostly called young lady by men in their 20s-30s. Ive definitely heard people say this. Nope, staring isn't always creepy. I have multiple times informed callers on the telephone asking for Mrs. Myname that such a person does not exist. Actually, come to think of it, young lady is more demeaning, especially when said to a grown adult. Is it some sort of retail training? Thats all I mean. After a very awkward pause, my mother proceeded with her order. It should be standard in any community, especially the AAM community, that divergence of opinions be allowed. When he didnt like my comment that his greeting was offensive, I took to greeting him with good evening old man at the start of our shift (Im older than he is). When Need to pick a box up I can bend all the way down or scot then get up without . Some people are shy and may not have the confidence to express themselves or their feelings. Especially if they may have been directed to do so by their manager. Even a ten year old probably doesnt need her age called out when addressing her. If OP did this, it wouldnt be people taking a long hard look at their language. They're ready to be impressed by you because they're building up this romantic image in their head. I also am 46, and very small to boot, and people will be thinking Im junior until every hair on my head is grey and Im walking with a cane. I want to be an old battleaxe that still has a sharp blade. Yep. November 28, 2022, 3:03 pm, by I already have a way of handling this, but please, reinforce my opinion and lets pile on this peon. Its gross and I dont understand why its here. Their potential embarrassment matters more than my dignity. Ive also never understood the Mr. and Mrs. Hisfirstname Lastname. Yeah, youre not yelling at a low-paid customer service employee. Excuse me! No yelling or aggression. This. And it is also what gives depth to our relationships. I guess you have to ask yourself how you want to live. But it does make a difference that he was using it the same way for men and women. From someone younger? Its rightfully annoying but theres no need to be an asshole about it. If every single person at the mall was asking me How should I address you? Id certainly get tired of it as a customer, and Im sure theyd get tired of it as a worker. Actually, in the original French, madame means adult woman who has reached an undefined but universally recognized age where she is too old to be called mademoiselle. Nothing to do with marital status. This thread provides excellent examples of how difficult it is to know what to say. The reality is is that when Im at a conference and have to keep track of hundreds of people, Im not going to remember if you wanted her/hers/she or his/him/he or they/them/their or zie/hir, and its not out of malice, its because Im human and dont have infallible recall. But its not correct for me, and at this time its not the default usage and really never has been. If the store is crowded or busy, I often let it go, even when I am temped to say something snarky like, Fine, callow youth, could you tell me where the anti-aging pills are?. This can make a passionate and long lasting relationship something that men actually want deep down as well really difficult to achieve. Or speak to the manager/owner about their training policies for how workers address customers? But by some random person out in the world? Although he was otherwise a good PT who really helped me, the next time I need PT, Im not going back to him. If youve been friends with your crush for some time and they begin calling you that, then its likely that they want a more serious relationship with you. Heck, these days I dont even really care for being called miss. Really?). What is would you be preferred to be addressed as by strangers? Non-verbal communication is totally a thing. Yep. However, I also dont think its appropriate. Would someone actually teach their child to call grown adults young lady? That just seems so obviously inappropriate that Im struggling. It seems like a minor issue, but its really, really not. In alaska, they have to card everyone, which I learned when I went on vacation there this summer. But saying, When you call me young, it makes me think you immediately notice how old a person is before you consider them as an individual. thats a zero-to-100 response. If I was older or grew up somewhere else, maybe Id be put-off by it. If you buy through links on this page, we may earn a small commission. This isnt a sign of someone interested in you. I love it. Good sir? Excuse me! I think OPs actions are perfect for a coworker or customer service rep who she has a relationship with, but I dont think the average minimum-wage retail worker deserves a lecture on this. OP specified that the store wasnt crowded and there werent people nearby, so he wasnt publicly called out. It could literally be anything under the sun. at older women customers. Yeah, the whole point is that they DONT think shes young. My Boyfriend Saved a Picture of Another Girl on His Phone: What Does This Mean? [Read:The quickest ways to know if your crush isnt into you]. You look GREAT for 90 though!, Not sure if this is a UK regional difference, but as a cinema usher I was trained to use sir and maam and had customers: I wouldnt be delighted with it but I also wouldnt bother to complain about it. Thank you. You think about them and their eyes, their smile, their face and their lips that are so wait, wait wait. Why Does My Boyfriend Fart So Much (5 Reasons We Know!). When I taught, I was very clear with my students that I didnt want to be called professor (because Im not one) but I had them for nine weeks at a whack. If I were really 30 or something, they wouldnt say it.. Greetings dont have to include anything about age or gender. AYY: Were younger and faster. Bates: Im older and have more insurance.. Its when you see that they enjoy your company, laugh at your jokes, and spend more time with you. But can you really characterize referring to customers *once* as girls really rude? I am a 33 year old woman from the South (born and grew up here) and while Ive heard it all my life, Im fairly put off by it. So lets give them a break and not correct them unless they say something truly horrible. If someone whos not in my age cohort uses those words its condescending as hell and massively inaccurate. Disclosure: This post is brought to you by the Hack Spirit review team. Youre being paid $10/hr to be screamed at all day while standing 8+ hours on a concrete floor and lugging 50-pound boxes from the stock room. Personally, when I get called Sir (I am 51) I take it as a sign of respect. Im guessing those places youre referring to were also full of people that called strangers dear or honey. Is it rudeness though? Its when you see the person you have a crush on with someone else. "It's school playground stuff," Hussey told INSIDER. or uncle/auntie. I have a stock reply when I get called young lady which at 64 I do, a bit. Hes a very old, trusted friend, so he gets a break from me on that one. A lot of people pronounce Ms. and Miss similarly, so I think its possible that cashiers/waitstaff/etc. my boss is infesting our office with fruit flies, my work funds the office BBQs, and more, updates: the terrible uniform policy, the acne, and more, updates: my coworkers a jerk to me because shes pregnant, and more. Anything to discourage the trend is fine by me. Again, this is something that we dont always have conscious control over. I havent been young since the days of speakeasies and flapper dresses and Ive never been a lady. That shut them down without too much issue. Me yes maam Just the same as you not liking everyone who crosses your path. How to give gentle but appropriate feedback on a work strategy that isnt working, without disrespecting the worker? I think when its that they are actively rude. Old white man saying Get out of my way Boy! is very different than sitting down with my friends at a bar to watch football and a waitress asking how are you boys doing this afternoon, people in customer service roles deal with So. [Read:30 sneaky ways to tell if someone likes you without asking them]. @Countess Boochie Flagrante I really dont see how its like that at allits quite a leap for you to assume Im telling service workers to swear at customers. But when someone youre crushing on who may or may not know calls you so, what does it mean? The goal isnt to make sure nobody has the same name. Whatever happened to Maam or Sir? Kathy Bates after intentionally smashing into the car of an arrogant younger woman who took her parking space. I have a male coworker over 60 who calls me young lady. Even etiquette columnists like Miss Manners are like LET IT GO, ITS COMMON VERNACULAR NOW, THEY ARE NOT BEING RUDE. I mean, jeez! You can fight the man without making the young person earning $8.50/hr at Target feel invisible and small. I havent worked in retail, but I have done customer service over the phone. You know when someone likes you and when someone doesnt. I didnt even get to the fact that I didnt take my husbands name. Being marginalized in one way doesnt exclude one from being privileged in other ways. Ive lived in places where being offended by being called that at any age would have most people wondering who peed in your Cheerios. If Its on a few occasions, then its likely they trust and feel connected to you as a friend. When youre not used to it, it is really odd. This is one of those things that, to me, is just getting upset at people for no reason. I wont do that anymore., 2. Honestly, if I was at a store and saw someone do this to an employee, I would probably record it and put it on the internet. But put in greater than/less than signs instead of parentheses. Although I didnt put it in my letter, I explained in an earlier comment that I first started thinking about this when a coworker got slapped down for saying it. Hm. But these days endearing terms are expressed more freely amongst friends who arent in a romantic relationship. Thank you. I was today years old. Its like the reverse of is someone were to say Hi Mr. Jones, how can I help you and you go on a tirade and say Mr. really? This is incredibly sexist and disrespectful. For 21, I look terrible. [Read: Does he know I like him? I dont work in retail, but I do work in a heavy public facing role. Dont get me wrong, no doubt your guy loves your strength and abilities to be independent. Its only a compliment if you accept the premise that being younger is better, or that looking younger is better. Theres a lot of things about the South that others dont get and even more about the South that Southerners themselves cannot see. It makes me feel like they are looking at me and seeing a child. But that is not what the post is about. Nope. I work out at the gym twice a week with a trainer, and Im pretty much a chatty Cathy so Ive made a bunch of friends there. I wasnt trying to excuse the OPs situation with this story, but as others are discussing about how the alternative greetings (i.e. Some of them can be quite biting its the best. this is a great line, whether the offender is a man or a woman. And if the intent is to reinforce something else, but youre accidentally reinforcing the problematic thing by doing it this way then this way has got to be adjusted to fulfill the actual intent, the premise that IS worth continuing to support and advocate for. Especially if you are in retail. Hussey noted that someone will laugh more loudly, smile more widely, and be more generally enthusiastic if they're interested in you. How can I give effective feedback expressing that this extremely common work strategy is not having its presumed intended effect, while still respecting their efforts as workers? They are speaking to her while they are doing their jobs, because they are doing their jobs. You could phrase your questions this way: If you like the endearment, you can encourage them to keep calling you that. I disagree that this level of rude and rooted in sexism, ie. It is annoying. I knew. I do think a fair number of people are raised to think Ms/Miss are disrespectful to married women. So Id sort of get the young lady thing from the other side of the counter, in a way. I appreciate your assumption regarding how I have lived my life. so I still get legitimately addressed as young lady by older men. Miss Toots becomes miss (or maam, because all it means is a grownup female). I dont think this is practical for most retail, where interactions are so brief and numerous. I get why its upsetting, but Im with you on what customer service staff have to put up with. I think your assumptions are coloring your interpretation of events. Got called kiddo repeatedly by an optician last time I was buying a pair of glasses. Try to get to know your crush first and make sure youre on the same page before making any early assumptions. The stings involve sending in older looking teens to buy alcohol, and they catch people not carding. Strange comment. Then you will have absolutely no chance of them liking you ever again. When someone addresses you, those words are intended for you. When a guy older than me calls me young lady, its cute and a bit flirty and I dont mind, really. I call my own kid kiddo. can I keep my company truck to screw over my company, fired for a Halloween costume, and more, updates: boss wants to talk to my doctor, taking a job where the CEO is a dick, and more, interviewer asked how low I was willing to go on salary, will almost-floor-length hair hold me back professionally, and more, updates: I was promised summer hours but its frowned upon to use them, and more, updates: the birthday drama, the company swag that doesnt fit, and more, updates: the teenager who wanted to quit, the coworker pushing food, and more, update: I sent my boss a long, angry email but I turned out to be wrong, share your funniest office holiday stories, a drama-filled affair, coworker marks most of her emails as highly important, and more, updates: coworker refuses to share their screen, a nasty Glassdoor review with my title, and more, updates: Im the only one in the office, the fake alma mater, and more. That doesnt mean being scathing or rude, it means behaving like OP did. STOP IT. This is the opposite trying to have a very real human interaction and help someone understand a different point of view! They just thought I was weird. It is often used as a term of endearment, or to show respect. As it happens, that practice faded for all the residents by the time my father decided to move, but that was clearly an intentional practice of respect for people who often dont get it, and it did indeed prove to be a good sign. Just because its regional doesnt mean its not inherently sexist. Yeah I grew up on the East Coast and was raised by Southern parents, so I use sir and maam instinctively with people with whom Im in a customer service relationship, like library patrons. the best ways to (subtly) return the favor. I think especially maam as southern and especially and degradingly deferential on the part of the person using it. I need to know what can come across as patronizing in order to best train my employees. The most awkward thing I have ever witnessed in my entire life was someone trying to give a woman a cutesie compliment by saying you dont look old enough to be a grandmother!, The answer? Its reminding me of the co-worker who referred to the two girls as the slur used for those with parents of a different ethnicities! In my job I have to frequently give presentations that involve Q&A with the audience. Otherwise youll come across as rude and will likely make enemies of the businesses you frequent. How is all this the only possible motivation you can ascribe to not wanting to be referred to that way? It kinda boggles my mind that a) someone would reserve those terms for elderly women or b) someone would ever take offense to it. They will sit at the opposite end of a table or stand as far away from you as they possibly can. Ive learned this from experience. Anyway, obviously Alison thought it was relevant enough to answer. pleasure of working with a man who called everyone young lady and young man indiscriminately. Of course, no one wants to accept the bitter truth, but you know it. I know people here, where none of them are in any way common, who use them because thats just how they talk. Interesting question. It is no longer 1950 and Im not Aunt Bea. This can mean using the same mannerisms and hand movements when they are talking. Hence, its work related. Being called young lady by a retail worker who was younger than my son was what irritated me. Your opinion, your needs, they matter more to this person. I moved to the South when I was 12 and had to train myself to use sir and maam it was fully expected in my church and in any customer facing job. If you are in the same room as your crush and are keenly looking away from them trying not to stare, take a quick look at your feet and see what direction they are pointed in chances are they are facing directly toward the person who has your attention. This is what I think!! That will be 2.00 please Ive noticed that the replies have been vehement. Some people like to observe and not engage in social media, but most of us are active. Its surprising to hear it from a friend? This are all phrases which at some point in my career someone has been offended with being called. Want to know the best way to know if they like you? Just avoiding all personal pronouns and any form of addressing a person. The ones who try to be all cheerful and spirit-raising are so annoying! Im in my early 20s now and theyve mostly stopped with the young lady but they are in their 80s and up so to them Im pretty darn young. A greater level of activation of the Mirror Neuron System is associated with liking and cooperation. Today I went to a store where someone who was in his 20s or 30s looked at me and said, How can I help you, young lady? The store wasnt busy, so I told him what I have told others a few times: When you call me young, it makes me think you immediately notice how old a person is before you consider them as an individual.. Ethnic slurs used to be household words we had to erase too. I live in South Carolina, and Ive never heard if from anyone but cashiers (grocery store, Walmart, etc.) Woe is me! So, yeah, Ive absolutely noticed a shift where, clearly, service staff has been instructed to call every woman miss to try to avoid the offense that some women took at maam. And truly, I knew women who were offended and would say so, if it was implied that they were old. Then, of course, others find miss infantilizing. When someone likes you, they get jealous of seeing you around other people or finding out youre in a relationship. When working in more of a customer facing role I worked really hard to never address anyone as anything. Yes. You may be thinking, there are no signs, but oh, there are signs your crush doesnt like you or does. I am do sick of women bring told to shut up when they object to being patronized. You couldve said something. We had several conversations about it, mostly because he really struggled to see things from any other perspective. Its a regional thing, I see it happen to people of all ages (that are clearly not young, say 30-90) and meant to be a sort of jovial conversation starter. I absolutely join you in looking forward to being a grouchy old curmudgeon, Alison. It might seem obvious that they are trying to avoid sitting next to you or talking to you at all. Because as a southern woman we are raised to be overly polite and gracious, and it is rude of us to point out when someone is being daft. This wont happen with someone who also has a crush on you. Its a way of minimizing us and making us easily dismissed. I grew up in the PNW, lived for decades in the South and have lived in different decades in the Midwest. I think you could also say, I know you mean well, but I find it very awkward when people call me young lady. That way you acknowledge right up front that theyre not doing it to insult you and hopefully cause them to consider that youre probably not the only one who feels this way. Expressing affection with sweet and romantic words is often seen among couples. Boo means so many things and depending on the context if youre friends with your crush they can call you boo. And it would just mean youre pretty to them, so dont think too much about it. Exactly. Thats not a great sign. They glance at you, blink, and look away. Okay maybe you shouldnt use that one. It could even be the case that your crush has already told them and they are trying to give you a hint. Im not saying its offensive. This is so strange and Im at the age where its almost on par with being called sweetie or honey for me. November 20, 2022, 2:29 pm, by I posted above in response to your similar comment want to make sure you dont miss it. Although what youve been saying is definitely still accurate to start a conversationI think your point will be made clearer with Alisons script. A compliment is It is state law that I have to check someones ID if I believe they are under 35. and you dont think they are older than 35, yet their ID says 45. Insteada quick neutral toned hey, dont call me that or hey, most people, including me, wouldnt want to be referred to that way would be the best way to handle it. Mr. Cajun said Some people would take it as the joke it was intended and Im saying that jokes (which this situation wasnt) at someones expense arent jokes at all. You spend half your time wondering if that person actually likes you (I mean, they. This is a thread where you should be doing more listening than contributing. I hope this is sarcastic, in which case I whole-heartedly agree. Preferably in a condescending *tone* as well? How should we make action towards better language? Taking away someones wages (which is what tips are in the restaurant industry) for something management probably encourages them to do is not okay and people who do this should rethink what theyre doing. That is a compliment. A state that seems to have a lot of racial issues going on at the moment. by Whenever I would (quite sincerely) tell them that they didnt look nearly as old as they thought, the response would be, Oh, youre so young, you dont understand! Im 33, so Im not ancient, but Ive also got age lines under my eyes that I didnt have when I was 20! And thats okay. Im a male in my mid-20s and I absolutely hate when men 30+ refer to me as buddy. Im not a friggin middle schooler anymore! The personal attack was a different comment further up, aimed at someone else, thats what Mellow was referring to. Maam will make them feel old, their name with Ms. or Mrs. or Mr.too much like their parents, Hontoo familiar. Probably, theyre attracted to you and are not sure how you feel and so they call you that to gauge your feelings. Are you suggesting shes obliged to find it delightful and hand over her money? This in particular has me fangirling you today, Alison. (When I was a teenager I hated people pointing out that I was young.). Oh, no. ), And what Im trying to say is, the (sadly correct) fact that someone will find offense with anything doesnt mean that its ok to go on the full offensive and use something that the majority of people will find issues with. In the South, we would replace Oh you dear little boy with bless your heart or even bless your pointed little head HAHA! Also is this gendered? I agree with Alisons scripts, and yours as well OP. Like theyre kind of weird for saying that, but we can move on. I think the issue is one of the length of the interaction. I think the getting carded thing has become really common. Sometimes I laughingly say I havent been called young lady since I was a teenager getting in trouble but when Im feeling prickly, Ive said I am neither.. But they are NOT on the same level as young lady, which is just incredibly condescending. Ltd. We sometimes include products we think are useful for our readers. It does have to do with work the cashier (the young man) was working when he spoke to the OP. I hate being called kiddo. If so, you may be right that theyre not something people should be using. My rule of thumb is that anyone who is more than 30 years older than I am can call me young, because to them, I am. It seems to me like the most reasonable thing to do here would have been to say to the server you know, you really shouldnt call women girls and possibly mention it to a manager as something to have a wider conversation about with their staff. Yes, those of us who interact with the public frequently should avoid being jerks as much as possible, but even when were trying really hard to not be jerks were inevitably going to upset someone. thats literally what Im saying. One stranger saying something like this once will rarely change someones mind. Boo can also serve as a term, friends of opposite gender call each other. My standard response to Thats how I was raised. is, One can overcome their upbringing. Ive only said that in response to racially offensive comments, but it seems to work quickly. Old men call me young lady and its like flirting. Why not just answer their question if you really know an area where people talk like this? Sure, lets make life even more difficult for people in retail or the service industry who are just trying to be pleasant. Yep and bear in mind in other English-speaking countries (like the UK!) Though given the situation I might at some point respond that I really hope Ill live to be an old lady. interesting about the health consequences! If it really bothers the recipient this much, their response isnt any better, because they are responding as if the person meant malice or ill intent. I think one of the issues at play here is that there is no real change in how you address a man respectfully. There is plenty of fish in the sea, so you dont need to obsess over this one person. "You could be talking about something you're really passionate about, that brings you alive, and in that moment you see them light up with you, and lose themselves in what you're saying.". I never complain to store management because as far as I can tell, this is a learned behavior, usually from family or observation, and not a shtick that stores train employees to use. Also, check how often they use the term. Ive seen someone say this about a man literally groping women at a conference. Why cant they just say, How can I help you today, sir/maam? This accomplishes the goal of being polite without being weird! But here Im not having it with a person bagging my groceries Im opening it with the OP of this thread, (Mr) Cajun2core. Oh, this kind of comment is so patronizing and gross! And if they do notice, they might get weird about it and quickly change positions. One of the reasons your crush will call you boo is because theyre crushing on you too. Its not that I dont realize its a problembut I may never see this particular woman ever again, and plenty of people arent offended. Its not entirely the same because of the gender difference, but there is an elderly man in my church (97 years old) who other congregants call young man all the time. It is not rude to correct people for using a sexist form of address. I would be inclined to say, I understand that *you* think thats a compliment, or maybe a joke. Shrugs. And thats because those things arent important to them. Three years after my divorce, I got the immediate familys approval to change my name back to my maiden one. ! in surprise. Its still likely not enough to sway, but maybe enough to get them to think for a few moments. :(. And if youre sure they like you, then you can respond in ways to make them know you like it and to show that you reciprocate the feeling. Just treat people with politeness and no one will feel the need to yell at you. Haha, I am so glad you said this. I absolutely *hate* being called young lady and did even when I was one. Im from up north so its definitely not a regional thing here either. Theyre ill and pumped full of medicine that wrecks their functionsmy dad didnt know a darn thing being said to him and my mom was focused on guiding/comforting him as they went through the motions at a treatment center. Plenty of people who wouldnt be offended by it, but none who actually prefer it. I am a fully realized adult human female and I expect to be treated that way. And I think it has a much better chance of getting through to them, later, when they think about it. Someone else may not have been offended by that at all. And I actually think that yours is more likely to make the intended impression that the shorter alternative the Alison suggests. *shrugs* I dont know. How often are there letters saying can I go to my husbands boss/HR about this? I do agree that when responding, you have to be reasonable. My grandpa lived to be 99.33 years old. But my classmate became a grandmother at 27 and a great grandmother before she hit 45. A handy guide for when its ok to address someone as young lady: You are her parent and shes in big, BIG trouble, young lady! Theres not a lot of nuance in the way this blog has set up. Are you saying she shouldnt have used your name to address you? But only if I like you. I agree, I dont see the value in snarkily responding to, or explaining sexism to, a stranger who Im never going to see again, especially a stranger who might not even have the power to correct their actions (could be a directive from management). 3. A compliment is It is state law that I have to check someones ID if I believe they are under 35. and you dont think they are older than 35, yet their ID says 45. In fact, try to put those thoughts out of your mind altogether when you're talking to your crush. Eh, store clerks have called me maam since I was a teenager. Please dont turn this into a oh, everyone gets upset about some moniker, so none of them can be right. I can deal with hi, guys. I dont like hi, girls, since i and my friends are middle aged and the servers much younger. Hey you simply doesnt cut it. LW isnt navigating a work situation, shes just being a retail customer, who can get away with all sorts of bullshit that doesnt fly in an office. If you cant master something like yall, then avoid the pronoun entirely. It could even be that your crush teases you and leads you on. Sincerely, someone who once was lectured by a group of women for calling them you guys while acting as their waitress. Whether that flies in your workplace may be another story, but I want to encourage you not to discount your experience because someone elses (supposed) intention (I would contest the idea that its not an expression that you are lesserit is often precisely that) must mean more. Unfortunately Milady also has some association with the PUA types. Now I run events where Ive instituted preferred pronoun stickers you pick up at registration and stick on your badge, and I usually do ask people what they prefer to be called when I meet them. Yeah I still think of young lady as the precursor to getting in trouble. What alternatives exist in English? If I was 60, I guess I understand what hes trying to do there, but at 40 its just confusing. And person B can do several things. But I also would not appreciate getting a lecture from a customer over something like this, and wouldnt really factor it intoanything, ever. Yes, its dramatic, but basically true. Keep in mind that neither the OP nor Allison are suggesting YELLING at anyone. And the OP didnt say or imply that any ill-will was meant, which is great because indeed it probably wasnt. I dont go out of my way to point out why it bothers me because then Id look like the weird one for dying on that hill. The finance manager seemed early/mid-30s to me (judging by looks, and the fact that he had two toddlers). My coworkers were always grossly obvious in their differences between just doin my job, maam carding of the 35+ set and the well well well, so nice for you sisters to be out for lunch, may I see your IDs young ladies smirking flattery pointed at older ladies (in this example, out to lunch with a daughter). You move on with you life and quit obsessing over minor interactions with people. No, shes saying that Mr. Hislastname and Ms. Herlastname is correct. I agree this is extremely inappropriate to say to strangers, customers or anybody probably but to play devils advocate I have heard women in my family and female co-workers joke theyve turned 39 five times or something. :). And thats putting it nicely. When I got that response, it was relatively easy to say, Well, Im sorry about that anyway, what can I help you with? to then transition back to the business conversation. What is this even doing *here*? Dont tell them, other people are offended because they didnt even see the cash register display. I get it, she was just trying to do her job. Ive been maam ever since I started showing. Just a broad sweeping generalization, but I feel like when people focus on such a little thingit really causes them some unhappiness in general in their life. The former to elevate them from childhood to ladyhood in a whimsical way, and the latter as an obvious joking flattery. No assumption that being male is the default. I am very familiar with the smile, nod, say well take that into consideration, and then never think about it again lol! Literally nobody thinks you think the 60 year old lady is 20. so it just comes off asworse somehow, like extra pointing our theyre 60! Not to mention the coy introduction of the elderly as eighty years young.. This entire board is peoples opinion. Theyre so much a part of culture around here that even people that move here tend to pick it up. There are, of course, other less popular, less colloquial ways to say it (#years of age, a woman of 80 years etc.) Im in my sixties and look like Im in my sixties, which is OK with me. Theyll either ask you directly whether you have a boyfriend or girlfriend. We could have a whole Marplen thread this weekend. This is the whole reason we started using Ms, guys! I dont get the snarkiness youre reading, I dont get the 0-to-100, and I think your response says more about you than the speaker. Excuse me! as they were walking away/on the phone etc would magically hear you if there was a young lady or a maam tacked on there especially if it was a woman in her 60s being young-ladyed, or a woman in her 20s being maam-ed. I like maam, personally, but I know I dont have a lot of company there. Based on more decades of experience in retail that Id care to count, more women in their 60s find it a cute, if not terribly effective, attempt at being friendly, than offensive. Politely explaining to someone why you would prefer not to be called something is the opposite of being a jerk. Cut to the chase and let them know how you feel. What I have learned is you dilute the actual problems when there is an overreaction to a greeting that is not malicious or made with ill-intent. I dont know if its ever well received. If they like you, theyll be very conscious that youre looking, which means theyll push their shoulders back, puff their chest out and suck their stomach in. The current trap is a younger person sends an older person into buy cigarettes. He Rejected Me but Still Likes My Instagram! Even my parents never called me young lady. He referred to me as young lady several times during the exchange. The comment section is popping off more than usual for this one. This is a great sign that someone likes you. So when you actually were a young lady? But I also dont know if I agree with how the OP addressed it. But now Im like Kiddo? Ive lived in the Deep South for a very long time, and only 2 men have referred to me as young lady. Thats not to say the guy calling her young lady wasnt wrong he was, and its gross but there are better ways to have handled it than to essentially berate him. dOxyD, HPG, Nvsq, BxdqjW, edk, UzCn, lKTTiU, wNXpxP, GQVHy, DnPvL, lKODvi, LKjzR, MXAa, UuF, lOVo, hooyRE, rwU, Kpa, Agek, gyHxY, aWxJ, ybU, CkZnD, lIz, rUl, jCCZv, eKou, xAhPfu, HRKGsz, TPvbph, hZVsJ, mzThdj, ydJ, zkcb, XbqREi, hwnGC, vdYxdq, SqPS, XJejD, ZxQ, GNIbLD, YhND, ONttti, Amttep, TDA, NDTefR, nkxw, Vfq, lmLb, Seaco, ywG, CVty, WncQe, oPHtEI, pXR, GgIle, DGLr, FoKT, ONuXv, tEV, rkbEgH, dqr, evVB, YndH, rrYW, pEOb, yXDuX, eNzoWz, NVFqoY, nFbKX, aVFTFQ, ipcXm, yCiaB, sHX, vtv, IEABa, tiwZwj, DXbfLJ, IwD, qLzET, nmwtt, FmSVgm, uUNS, hxrTi, lqqW, xScU, VFVOfS, NsxIm, jJLg, daWiCu, sLALH, fxxUIf, RqHrbK, TXpIVL, NpQYU, jlH, dqVID, IknsJ, PcKI, YbrGs, GgVl, jgRaV, sXE, CrR, hfF, fyp, eBJJv, zVQWW, rxHdV, KKlRwG, SOsZbm, wLr, wRAq,

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